Júlia Repovská So after a year, I came to the conclusion that I and my ESTJ co-worker can't be real friends. We were together the whole college but we were not so close. I thought this would change now but there is a constant power game between us (mostly because of her).
I wanted to be more open and I am trying to be a better person because there is enough evil in this small world Imho but she is constantly pushing the boundaries with little insults (f.e. poking fun at me because I'm learning Japanese now).
Last Friday when she started another meaningless confrontation instead of laughing it off like I always do, I was stone cold and I was acting the same way she does. She later apologized two times because she knew she crossed the line.
Does someone here have the same experience? Can ESTJ and ENTJ be friends? (I am asking like a 5 years old, lol.)
Linus Neil Palmqvist Yeah, just be clear what you expect and when lines are crossed. Estjs melt against resistance that has an equal or greater resolve to their own. It might even make her respect you more. Direct honesty is usually best when it comes to Te doms.
Mandy Schwartz Maybe they are envious of your personal success, I don't mean that in a narcissistic way but people who aren't happy with themselves project outwardly sometimes. People who are emotionally immature can be so catty. I also agree with the sentiment that ESTJ/ESFJ people can give us sensors a bad name. 😬 (ISFJ).
Corey Page I worked with an ESTJ who needed to learn how to chill out. She took everything super serious and actually made things less productive as a result. She had a lot of anger problems as well.
Francisco Rodriguez My fiancé is ESTJ, I think the only reason we don’t get into power struggles often is because of how detached I am. But lawd when it happens it’s bad.
Karlo Krčelić They are mostly a pain in a neck (I met a few good ones but they are far and few in between...). Just set boundaries and when they step over them (and inevitably they will) put them in their place (call them out on their behavior, ridicule them jokingly at first and if they can't take a cue ridicule them relentlessly...). If you do that a few times the amount of BS from them is going to be far less. Just whatever you do (or maybe I should say: whatever they do) don't lose your temper with them because you don't want to give them a reason to play a victim card...
Júlia Repovská Karlo Krčelić thanks for advice. I did call her out (calmy) and it helped.
Catrina Smallwood Powell I am married to an ESTJ! We pick at each other every day. He is completely the most competent human I have ever known. He is brilliant and driven and has so much perseverance. Best teammate in the whole world. Do we clash? Yes every day. Do I trust anyone more? Noooooo! He thinks I am way to bossy and never give him a break. But holy crap there is seriously nothing he can’t accomplish. Yes you can be friends once you establish that you truly respect one another. Communicate that to your ESTJ friend. Ribbing will be good natured not competitive. If there is one person you can trust to do a great job it is most likely that person.
Razvan Florentin Popescu i think you cannot assume competence on all ESTJs now )
Kyle Alexander Taylor Julia, You have just framed my existence in a way that almost made me feel like I am having an out of body experience. One of my closest friends was/is an ESTJ, we are also in the same profession (both Army Officers), moved in the same circles, but never actually worked together. By a shear stroke of chance, after many years, we happened to be assigned to the same place for the first time in our career. We had always been the same rank, but he was selected for promotion a year before me, so when he was assigned, he ended up becoming my supervisor. Keep in mind, this is someone I talked with daily, We vacationed together, solved all The world’s Problems Together.... And then, when He became my Boss, he “morphed” into the most thin skinned, micro-managing, power-hungry, rank conscience Supervisor I have EVER worked for! I put “morphed” into quotation marks, because what I have been trying to reconcile, is whether this is who he ALWAYS was, but I just never saw that side because i never worked with/for him, OR, if these tendencies are manifesting themselves because his insecurity eats away at him, because he knows I have experiences that he doesn’t, and abilities, he doesn’t. Our capacity for “intuiting” makes me good at what we do, and it absolutely UNNERVES him when he discovers the things I understand and am often right about, based strictly on my “hunch.” It took less than 40 days for one of my closest friendships to completely dissolve. I never “presumed” upon him, never expected favorable treatment, never tried to get away with slacking off because the boss was one of my best friends...I kept up my same solid performance. But then, His need to remind me in some small way every 20 minutes that HE was the Boss, went from a mild annoyance to utter calamity in the workplace! His incessant need to “Boss-Up” on me, has destroyed our Friendship, because I don’t have it in me to just allow myself to get “Bossed up” on. So one day, I came unhinged on Him. He gave me a written formal reprimand, and the fracture became a “break!” I won’t lie, this legitimately hurt me deeply, Like a really bad break up. And it’s a shame we couldn’t find a way to work through this. I was OK with him being my Boss...I am NOT OK, with him always having to REMIND Me, that he’s my Boss! 🤷🏽♂️😔
Júlia Repovská Kyle Alexander Taylor thank you for sharing your story. It is a good insight for me. I read somewhere that ENTJs feel very uncomfortable while working for ESTJ because of ESTJ’s egocentric behavior. My co-worker is very narrow-minded and takes my opinion only when she is really struggling with finding a solution. Otherwise, she doesn't really listen to me. I can't really picture myself working for her and I’m not alone
Kyle Alexander Taylor Júlia Repovská, This Is Another Perfect Description Of Our Problem...He Uses Me To Bail Him Out AFTER He Has Insisted On Doing Things In His Own Half Informed Way...Otherwise He Doesn’t Want To Hear ANY Of My Inputs...He Just Walks Around Snidely And Sarcastically Saying “Noted!”
Razvan Florentin Popescu context changes people. power especially him bossing up is a combination of 1 poor intimacy with you 2 poor vision of management / your abilities 3 flawed value system that puts short term results over long term ones 4 poor emotional intelligence 5 poor vision of vulnerability as NOT a virtue > poor leader yes, i think this is who he always was.. you need context to test peoples metal. 80% of us are living next to people we would hate test more
Kim Bergström Life is too short to have shitty friends. If I had to coach someone to be a good friend, I would look elsewhere.
James Christian Erickson I am an INTJ and the former pastor of my church was an ESTJ and the description you made of ESTJ was dead-on. I never got along with him even though I was actually highly regarded by everyone else on the staff. He was always making snide remarks, always unnecessarily confrontational, and always trying to be "alpha". It was annoying.
Marcelina Stępniak I have an ESTJ person in my life too. What is up with them making fun of your progress? I thought we are friends after some time and I can see his Fi wanting to come out on the day light but... He fucks up the trust and connection constantly. Such a waste of good energy..
Júlia Repovská Marcelina Stępniak yes exactly. I cherish my own energy too. I am just trying to open that doors to her true self but she is shutting them from time to time. I don't know why 🤔🤔.
Razvan Florentin Popescu flawed vision, flawed value system. they dont understand it and their intuition sends concerns. from my experience its a vision limitation, some things they understand, others are too complex and they are stuck with them. sadly.. they will never stop poking ) so the intimacy is limited by default. as it should per competence
Art Ram Best friend is an ESTJ. Sure, he’s a piece of shit in most people’s eyes but I think we get along great. -intj
Júlia Repovská Is he behaving the same way towards you? Is the confrontation some kind of ,,love language" that I don't understand?
Art Ram Nope he doesn’t act like an asshole towards me probably cause he knows I will put him in his place or just cause he knows I don’t play that shit. We are very blunt and don’t lie about stuff. He’s not very confrontational unless he has his facts gathered
Jessica Searcy Same as Art Ram. My best friend is ESTJ (been friends for over 30 years). She's never belittling or insulting, just very matter of fact. But we are friends. Now, I do hear her talk about slackers at work from time to time and how they drive her crazy, but I doubt you're a slacker. Most likely, you're viewed as competition and she has a fragile ego. Her insults are her way of boosting herself up.
Razvan Florentin Popescu as any relationship, it depends on intimacy. do they like you? do they fear you?
and then ask yourself, do you want to have a relationship with a fucked up individual that you get to see only the good side of ?
whats that philosophy like ?